— Gothic wrote Novgorod is not at war with Mongols, we didn't attack your or not intend and YET .... you are going to attack. Your real face has been revealed - it's face of agressor and invader, let Saint Mary protect our land from thieves and rapists.
Mongols are nothing more than bunch of cowards - we never attacked them and yet they gang on Novgorod will his little dog Lithuania.Fight like a man 1 vs 1 and we shall show you who is real men and not use Lithuania to do your dirty job.
A 3 star Novgorodian general with a 757 men army including 150 spear mercenaries trying to HIDE IN MONGOLIAN TERRITORY. How are we to bloody interpret that? Why recruit expensive mercenaries if you didnt intended to attack Mongolia? Why did you attack Lithuanian armies when only thing those armies did was exactly what you did to the Mongols, but instead of 757 men we sent smaller armies? Furthermore, if you actually didnt want to attack mongolia why didnt you accepted my proposal of retreating from Mongolian territory in exchange of peace? You even asked me, exceeding by the way your cynism, to abandon the mongols. And still you werent going to invade them? One does not simply take 757 soldiers into anothers nation territory and expect to actually make them believe they are only there to visit the local pub.
And regarding your dog comments. A nation who believes that helping your very own ally (upon him being invaded) is equal to a dog obeying his master, will never deserve to be an ally of Lithuania. Both Mongolia and Lithuania see each other as equals. By thinking that Mongolia can only possibly be treating us as their obedient dogs, rather than as their trustworthy allies, you are only reflecting your own beliefs.
We are glad our allies are the Sovereign Nation of Mongolia and not Novgorod, the overbearing nation that cant understand the meaning of equality, friendship and sovereignty and most likely sees everyone but themselves as dogs.
And regarding the TO, both Poland and HRE have stated they are destroying the Teutons so Lithuania has plenty of help. And not only that, we have already expelled 2 evil Teutons armies from Lithuania summing at least 1000 foolish inaders defeated. Unfortunately we have no SS of this but you may be sure the Teutons are far from representing a real danger to Lithuania.
You are alone, unless of course you ally with the TO which you, by the way, claimed to have a desire of destroying them. Such dishonourable tactics are only for Nations like yours. Stop trying to disguise the truth, you are the one in the desperate situation not us.
— Saspi wroteMongols are not going to help you out, they are far far away from TO and they troops are pathetic.
You might be made to eat your words as early as next turn
You invaded my lands with a large army, without ever making contact for free passage, thats a declaration of war as far as im concerned.
You would only stab us in the back later in the game if we had peace now, so forget your 'peace' treaty
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Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:29 pm
Soulfly
Poland up!
The king of Denamrk is honoured the Kaiser has accepted the alliance.The Kaisers friends are our friends and your enemies are our enemies.A gift from Denmark brother,woman from every corner of the world..
"Soulfly, King of Denmark raises a goblet of ale"
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:06 am
Gothic
Wow so much emotions this hotseat is going to rock, but we need to fix something :
1)
I claim Denmark got unfair advantage in the game and demand fixing this in acceptable way for Novgorod or set me to AI as game is unaplayable for me now
1) Novgorod starts with huge army in Novgorod city 2) Denmark starts with tiny army in the castle nearby
Denmark has no chance to keep north , Narva , Reval must fall because of numeric advantage russian army.So Denmark must lose territory by two ways :
1) Invasions of russian troops 2) honorable agreement
I wanted to be fair and not attack anybody without warning, so I offered Denmark deal to buy Neval and Nerva for 2500 - as he couldnt keep it anyway.Denmark agreed
Based on our agreement I sent my army away from Novgorod, towards TO as I promised Lithuania to support him.I expected Denmark to fight with HRE as they seem natural enemy so I sent PM to HRE just warning him Denmark sold me north and he may focus on him soon so he should be ready.I asked him in PM to keep this msg confidential as I wanted to have good relations with Denmark.
Denmark read msg and cancel deals, or claims he would find out anyway because HRE is his ally. Denmark didn't announce HRE is his ally, I would never sent this PM to HRE if I knew they are allied so reason for canceling agreement is invalid but it's not really a problem.
I claim Denmark got serious advantage and Novgorod serious disadvantage.Based on agreement I moved my troops away, in the meantime Denmark recruited whole army in castle which would never happen in natural flow of the game. By misleading Novgorod Denmark has a chance to keep north as he managed to recruit army and I was not able to capture Reval and Narva.In the current attack of Mongols and Lithuania game is unplayable for Novgorod because he must capture Danish castle with heavy casualties or keep one army on the north to protect Novgorod.
It would never happen in normal game or if Denmark honor agreement.It just can't be like that because you can say faction you will his ally and next round when he moves troops you attack.I don't care about that PM because it was just roleplaying, Denmark by canceling deal is having advantage and PM are not reason to cancel deal you did agree - especially when other player based on agreement moved his troops and you recruited new ones.
I demand Denmark to sell me north for 7000 coins 700 per 10 rounds [color=red]which you also did agree again and pull back his army from north to fix balance or find other acceptable solution for Novgorod[/color]
2)
I admit I had my army in Mongol territory but it's not reason for war.
1) Mongols and Lithuania didn't annouce any alliance 2) Mongols troops were not attacked nor mongols cities 3) Lithuania was attacked because he attacked me, declared war on me and the worst breached into my territory and hide his troops everywhere 4) Mongols were not attacked though I could capture Mglin
It got me pissed because Lithuania just before asked for my help and I sent my troops to support him, I had my armies near Duraburg and have screens to prove it. Next round he attacks me because he had some secret alliance with Mongols nobody knew about - I still consider this as backstabing Saspi.You could warn me or use other way, Novgorod is not push over and it's not going to listen to your demands from position of force.
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:49 am
Soulfly
for those in game that dont know whats happened.
soulfly
aw fuck,right next to denmark...should i be worried?
gothic
oh, no ... do I have so bad reputation ? Smile)))
In fact I offer you peace and friendship.You can't keep north and you know it Smile but instead of sword and violence I offer you coins for Danish northern territory Smile how about that ?
soulfly
lol hoe much,would need to be a good amount..i knew you would attack
gothic
well, I don't plan to attack you ... but Russia starts with >huge< army in the north and I must make some use of it ... I prefer though not behave like a savage and offer civilized terms for your withdrawl - peace and trade rights and coins for land in the north. It's very beneficial for you because you are unable to keep the north anyway ,I can take it with force , so you may sell it to me and use coins to take care of closer areas Smile If we stay friends you may focus on the on Norway and HRE, instead of fighting hopeless war with Novgorod.
soulfly
lets not beat about the bush lol,huch much coins?
gothic
2500 coins,trade rights,eternal friendship,unlimited vodka and russian girls supply - my friend that's an offer you can not refuse Smile
soulfly
the king of denmark would like to remind you that denamrk is no push over, novgorod do have a large army in the north but have still to deal with teutonic order,lithuania and also the mongols.
however your offer is very interesting,maybe we can agree on this after all.however..i would like to add the following conditions:
denamrk will give you the two regions you want for 2500 upfront,the king of denmark would also like your word if his mighty faction capture abo you will show no interest in it.
denmark have other interests at moment and dont want war with you,but i know your a sneaky fucker lol..
gothic
Our mighty Tsar sealed the deal, so it is 2500 in gold, vodka and the girls for northern regions which will come back to mother Russia.We admire wisdom of your king who decided to deal this problem in civilized way :)
We are not interested in any war with Denmark, let our friendship flourish then Smile and let our enemies die in suffering Smile
soulfly
aye sounds good,send a diplomat my way
as you can see from the pm's above i had agreed a deal with gothic before campain really got going,i think it was on turn 1 or before.i wanted to avoid war at the start to build so was going to agree if it would avoid war,i could then use those units in town and catsle to capture rebal land north.
i had already argeed a deal with ranger but diplomats were to far away,as admin i then had to sub ranger on turn 2 and then i seen the message from gothic :
even if i hadnt subed ranger,he would have told me about the message anyway.
gothics message to ranger is sneaky and clever,you can see from pm's to me and ranger what he was trying to do...it could have worked well,but it backfired this time.
after seeing that message why should i sell those regions???
gothic its no ones fault but your own,it may have worked in another game buy backfired this time,and with your advance on mongols you have fucked up at this point in the campain,its upto you to change that in game somehow,not come on the forums and be a bad looser,you done the same thing in last campain.
if your saying i must sell you those regions or you will quit then im my own optinion as a player in game not admin you should stop the bad looser crap and play or or quit and we will try find another player to replace you.you are a good addition to the campain,and am sure we all would prefer you continue to play on no matter what happens.fight and die with honour..if you made some mistakes learn from them.
however,as admin/host ill let all the members in campain decide if gothic should get those regions after all,please read over my post,ive added the pms and message to try be fair and let you all see,so you can vote in fairness of game.
so please copy and paste the list below and add your vote to it.
in my option me and gothic shouldnt vote,but if yous think otherwise please say.
1.ranger 2.saspi 3.ares 4.death
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:28 am
Gothic
I'm not bad looser - it's who doesn't honor deals - it's usuallly not a problem but this time it affects gameplay.
Novgorod starts with huge army in the north and reason for this is to secure northern flank and I did secure it but by diplomacy as we did agreed.You could rejected my deal straight away and I would capture these regions by attack - but we had deal you are selling it to me and my diplomat offered you deal which you were suppose to accept and I moved my troops away I was sure northern flank is secure, otherwise my army would capture it shortly.
We had agreement - based on that I made decisions - moved troops away from north because it was already secure.
You got advantage because you keep north now and me in check which was not suppose to happen in any case.And please don't get started about this PM ... it's not reason to cancel deals you already agreed because I made already my movements.
Denmark can't keep north simple as that - you knew it and that's why you did agree to sell it, but then when I already moved troops away, you cancel agreement and recruit troops which keep me in check because I can't move my troops south.This is not fair IMO.
--
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:58 am
Soulfly
maybe you shouldnt have messaged ranger,maybe you shouldnt have moved a big army to mongols..
no point me repeating myself,its all in the post i made above..lets put it to the vote...am sure if its as unfair as you say the others will vote i should sell you the land.if they do no problem
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:19 pm
Gothic
You agreed to sell because you had no chance to keep it anyway as I would attack instantly, now after I moved my troops and you recruited whole army there you change your mind.
You got unfair advantage simple as that.
1) PM was for Ranger not for you 2) You didn't annouce alliance with Ranger 3) There was nothing in PM to cancel deal - just a warning that's
4) Most important - you change decisions which already has been made - when other player made his move already.
You use this PM as pretext to not to honor your agreements - it screws up gameplay as Denmark is not suppose to be on north.It makes Novgorod impossible to have proper war with Mongol-Lithuan alliance.
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:38 pm
Soulfly
PM was for Ranger not for you
1.ranger has already said he would have told me so it would have made no difference,so i wouldnt have known about your sneaky message.if you never sent it then this wouldnt be happening..instead of pm in game use xfire.steam,teamspeak,forums pm...your tactics backfired.
2) You didn't annouce alliance with Ranger
2.i didnt announce in forum about sellin you land yet you still go on about it..
3) There was nothing in PM to cancel deal - just a warning that's
3.to me that message shows your pms to me were crap,you were shit stiring hoping hre might decide on attacking me sometime,even though in one of your pms above you tell me to attack norway then hre lol..you were trying to cause war between us...backfired
4) Most important - you change decisions which already has been made - when other player made his move already.
4. i changed my mind before the deal could be done in game because your sneaky tactics,you trying to start wars between me and other faction...your tactics and mistakes caused this..you have shown no honour,going behind denmarks back to try start wars to benifit you,move armys into mongols land trying to hide, YOU TRY PREACH TO THE KING ABOUT HONOUR,FOOL!
i didnt recruit units in those regions untill turn 3!
stoping moaning about it,let the members vote...
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:24 pm
Gothic
There is nothing to vote as fact you got unfair advantage is obvious, and LOL, sorry but I don't expect Saspi and DM to vote against their interests.
This is first hotseat -ever- Denmark keeps north and it keeps it because it misleaded other players.PM has nothing to do with it - as the deal was sealed already,and my troops were moved.
Let's come back to round 1 and let's check if you can keep north.Oh no, - you can't, and everybody knows about it that's why you sold it to me.Don't talk me about honor - if you can't honor your own words.
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:36 pm
Soulfly
we are repeating ourselves here let the 4 others vote,if its even then we will get a neutral member to help decide...if your not happy with a vote,i cant see any other way....but if your confident it was unfair on you...the other players are good honest people..if it was unfair am sure they will vote with honest opinion in fairness of game.
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:51 pm
Colin747
If I may offer an outside opinion into this. First of all you can't complain about people have secret alliances, you are dealing with real people here not some AI that will announce when they are allied with someone. This happens in real life, eg the "Triple Alliance" in the 1870's, so quite frankly I think you've no grounds for complaint over this at all.
However after saying that it is indeed possible that HRE would not have shown that message to Soulfly due to having their own plans, in future a player who is not taking part in the campaign should play for subbed members.
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:26 pm
Ares0
[img] [/img]
[img][/img]
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:25 pm
Ranger
All is fair in war. You made the decision to not take Soulfly's regions using your army, regardless of any agreements made. It is your own fault that you did not take them. Even if there was an agreement, people break agreements all the time, so it is your fault that you trusted the agreement. Soulfly should keep his regions simply because he has no reason to give them up since it is your own fault that you did not take them.
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:35 pm
Gothic
That bullshit Ranger, this way you can promise somebody alliance and when he moves troops attack him.His fault he trusted your words.Rubbish and makes any diplomacy impossible, some basic rules must follow.
---
I have been a lot badmouthed by Lithuania but I post here prove it's Lithuania who backstabed Novgorod
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this hotseat is going to rock, but we need to fix something :
- it's usuallly not a problem 
